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toyotahachiroku · 02-01-2008, 01:21 PM

i just picked up this car. its a 88 325is. i noticed that it gets hard to start when left not running for too long. outside temp doesnt matter. its still hard to start. it doesnt blow out oil smoke or anything like that neither. i've just started some maintenance work on it thinking it might clear that up but no such luck. i've put in new plugs (no oil on old plugs), new plug wires, cap, rotor, new tstat cuz it didnt have any heat, and a new temp sensor for the ecu while i was there cuz the old one looks like it was loose or separated somehow. basically, it would crank for a long time, then sputter a bit, then slowly it would start firing and start. if i give it some gas, it will help it start. if not, i would have to crank it for like 30+ seconds or so before it begins to sorta start firing up. it feels like it doenst run on all 6 at first, wait a few seconds more and it does. it gets hard to start if left not running for more than 1 hour. once it fires up, the car is smooth, idles solid at about 6-700rpm and runs perfectly fine. no CEL of any sort either. any ideas?

k-swiss · 02-01-2008, 01:24 PM

Maybe toss a fuel pump relay in it.. Chances are the original one is still in there.

Cacciatore08 · 02-01-2008, 02:50 PM

Mine has the same issue, doesn't seem to be as bad as yours tho... It doesn't happen all the time just once in a while, and a rough idle at first until she warms up...

toyotahachiroku · 02-01-2008, 08:11 PM

i switched the fuel pump relay with a known good one. problem still present.

DS Rook · 02-01-2008, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by toyotahachiroku

i just picked up this car. its a 88 325is. i noticed that it gets hard to start when left not running for too long. outside temp doesnt matter. its still hard to start. it doesnt blow out oil smoke or anything like that neither. i've just started some maintenance work on it thinking it might clear that up but no such luck. i've put in new plugs (no oil on old plugs), new plug wires, cap, rotor, new tstat cuz it didnt have any heat, and a new temp sensor for the ecu while i was there cuz the old one looks like it was loose or separated somehow. basically, it would crank for a long time, then sputter a bit, then slowly it would start firing and start. if i give it some gas, it will help it start. if not, i would have to crank it for like 30+ seconds or so before it begins to sorta start firing up. it feels like it doenst run on all 6 at first, wait a few seconds more and it does. it gets hard to start if left not running for more than 1 hour. once it fires up, the car is smooth, idles solid at about 6-700rpm and runs perfectly fine. no CEL of any sort either. any ideas?

sounds like the injector relay. 5pin, sits next to fuel pump relay.

Al Canuck · 02-01-2008, 11:10 PM

I concur, sounds like a relay issue. Either fuel pump(known good, is not good enough. Get a NEW one), or main relay.

Al

toyotahachiroku · 02-01-2008, 11:29 PM

injector relay = main relay?
just want to make sure we're using the same terminology. dont want to mess this up. its my only car for now.
in the bmw electrical repair manual for the 88 e30, there isnt anything called the injector relay. from front to back in a row, there is the main relay followed by the fuel pump relay and lastly the oxygen sensor heater relay.

Al Canuck · 02-02-2008, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by toyotahachiroku

injector relay = main relay?
just want to make sure we're using the same terminology. dont want to mess this up. its my only car for now.
in the bmw electrical repair manual for the 88 e30, there isnt anything called the injector relay. from front to back in a row, there is the main relay followed by the fuel pump relay and lastly the oxygen sensor heater relay.

Main relay is sometimes mistakenly called an injector relay. Same thing though.

Al

DS Rook · 02-02-2008, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by toyotahachiroku

injector relay = main relay?
just want to make sure we're using the same terminology. dont want to mess this up. its my only car for now.
in the bmw electrical repair manual for the 88 e30, there isnt anything called the injector relay. from front to back in a row, there is the main relay followed by the fuel pump relay and lastly the oxygen sensor heater relay.

Yes sorry, main relay. The person i learned my limited mechanical knowledge from is english, and thats what he calls it. Plus, he's old.

Same relay. I think i may need an english to english dictionary.

toyotahachiroku · 02-02-2008, 05:59 PM

new relays. problem still there

toyotahachiroku · 02-02-2008, 06:16 PM

sorry about my limited knowledge in e30s. i dont recall my m3 doing this before. but key on engine off, will the fuel pump prime the systems for a few seconds before starting? i remember some of my previous cars do that. but dont remember if it was the e30 m3 or not...maybe it was the e36 or the toyotas. errrr

redhatpat · 02-02-2008, 10:45 PM

I've heard both that the e30 primes the fuel system for a couple seconds, and that it doesn't. I've tested mine, (a 90 325i) and it doesn't do this.

I'm trying to track down a long crank time on mine, and my latest "fix" is to replace the fuel injectors, figuring that at least one is leaking and bleeding off the fuel pressure. I just finished putting them in, so I should know if that solves it in a couple days of driving.

You can test for this by letting the car sit for a few hours (as long as you would normally when it becomes hard to start) and take off the fuel line to the fuel rail. You should have a pretty healthy bit of fuel pressure still in there. If not, then you too might have a leaking fuel injector.

Pat

evo3 · 02-02-2008, 11:02 PM

I have similar symptoms. I might go ahead and replace the 2 relays previously mentioned. Hopefully that solves it, but I'll keep an eye on this thread.

direction88 · 02-02-2008, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by toyotahachiroku

sorry about my limited knowledge in e30s. i dont recall my m3 doing this before. but key on engine off, will the fuel pump prime the systems for a few seconds before starting? i remember some of my previous cars do that. but dont remember if it was the e30 m3 or not...maybe it was the e36 or the toyotas. errrr

I had a problem today where my car was good and warm. We drove to the north shore from East Van after a good 10 min warm up. The initial step of the wine making only took about 15-20 min and when we went to leave my car took 3 good cranks to start! It was embarrassing to say the least!! I have heard that the M20 often suffers from this problem?

Toyotaman check your PM folder.

Weeman83 · 02-02-2008, 11:56 PM

My M42 did this, and it was the in-tank fuel pump.

Beg a friend who has a healthy M20 car and borrow their fuel pump to try it out. Should be no more than 15 minute swap.

02-01-2008, 01:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
toyotahachiroku Member Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 69 iTrader: 0 Thanks: 0 0 Times in 0 Posts	E30 325IS hard start i just picked up this car. its a 88 325is. i noticed that it gets hard to start when left not running for too long. outside temp doesnt matter. its still hard to start. it doesnt blow out oil smoke or anything like that neither. i've just started some maintenance work on it thinking it might clear that up but no such luck. i've put in new plugs (no oil on old plugs), new plug wires, cap, rotor, new tstat cuz it didnt have any heat, and a new temp sensor for the ecu while i was there cuz the old one looks like it was loose or separated somehow. basically, it would crank for a long time, then sputter a bit, then slowly it would start firing and start. if i give it some gas, it will help it start. if not, i would have to crank it for like 30+ seconds or so before it begins to sorta start firing up. it feels like it doenst run on all 6 at first, wait a few seconds more and it does. it gets hard to start if left not running for more than 1 hour. once it fires up, the car is smooth, idles solid at about 6-700rpm and runs perfectly fine. no CEL of any sort either. any ideas?

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02-01-2008, 01:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
k-swiss Senior Member Name: Kirin Joined: May 2006 From: Kamloopizstan Posts: 1,594 iTrader: 0 Thanks: 0 5 Times in 4 Posts k-swiss's pictures '07 Volkswagen Rabbit '62 Volkswagen Beetle '89 BMW 325i	Maybe toss a fuel pump relay in it.. Chances are the original one is still in there.

02-01-2008, 02:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
Cacciatore08 Senior Member Joined: May 2007 From: Vancouver Posts: 855 iTrader: 0 Thanks: 5 8 Times in 7 Posts	Mine has the same issue, doesn't seem to be as bad as yours tho... It doesn't happen all the time just once in a while, and a rough idle at first until she warms up...

02-01-2008, 08:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
toyotahachiroku Member Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 69 iTrader: 0 Thanks: 0 0 Times in 0 Posts	i switched the fuel pump relay with a known good one. problem still present.

02-01-2008, 11:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
Al Canuck Banned Name: Al Joined: Jul 2005 From: Surrey, BC Posts: 1,850 iTrader: 0 Thanks: 4 3 Times in 3 Posts	I concur, sounds like a relay issue. Either fuel pump(known good, is not good enough. Get a NEW one), or main relay. Al

02-01-2008, 11:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
toyotahachiroku Member Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 69 iTrader: 0 Thanks: 0 0 Times in 0 Posts	injector relay = main relay? just want to make sure we're using the same terminology. dont want to mess this up. its my only car for now. in the bmw electrical repair manual for the 88 e30, there isnt anything called the injector relay. from front to back in a row, there is the main relay followed by the fuel pump relay and lastly the oxygen sensor heater relay.

02-02-2008, 05:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
toyotahachiroku Member Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 69 iTrader: 0 Thanks: 0 0 Times in 0 Posts	new relays. problem still there

02-02-2008, 06:16 PM	#11 (permalink)
toyotahachiroku Member Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 69 iTrader: 0 Thanks: 0 0 Times in 0 Posts	sorry about my limited knowledge in e30s. i dont recall my m3 doing this before. but key on engine off, will the fuel pump prime the systems for a few seconds before starting? i remember some of my previous cars do that. but dont remember if it was the e30 m3 or not...maybe it was the e36 or the toyotas. errrr

02-02-2008, 10:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
redhatpat Senior Member Joined: Feb 2006 From: Pitt Meadows Posts: 866 iTrader: 0 Thanks: 2 1 Time in 1 Post	I've heard both that the e30 primes the fuel system for a couple seconds, and that it doesn't. I've tested mine, (a 90 325i) and it doesn't do this. I'm trying to track down a long crank time on mine, and my latest "fix" is to replace the fuel injectors, figuring that at least one is leaking and bleeding off the fuel pressure. I just finished putting them in, so I should know if that solves it in a couple days of driving. You can test for this by letting the car sit for a few hours (as long as you would normally when it becomes hard to start) and take off the fuel line to the fuel rail. You should have a pretty healthy bit of fuel pressure still in there. If not, then you too might have a leaking fuel injector. Pat

02-02-2008, 11:02 PM	#13 (permalink)
evo3 Banned Name: Luis Joined: May 2005 From: Richmond, BC Posts: 957 iTrader: 0 Thanks: 7 6 Times in 6 Posts	I have similar symptoms. I might go ahead and replace the 2 relays previously mentioned. Hopefully that solves it, but I'll keep an eye on this thread.

02-02-2008, 11:56 PM	#15 (permalink)
Weeman83 Senior Member Joined: Oct 2007 From: Richmond Posts: 1,293 iTrader: 0 Thanks: 13 14 Times in 9 Posts Weeman83's pictures '91 BMW 318IS	My M42 did this, and it was the in-tank fuel pump. Beg a friend who has a healthy M20 car and borrow their fuel pump to try it out. Should be no more than 15 minute swap.

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E30 325IS hard start